Before Peter Hunt and Bobby Longbottom were brought on board, Nick Corley was the director of The Scarlet Pimpernel. He took the show through the initial readings and Group Sales presentations. As is true with everyone I've met through this organization, Nick was very friendly and willing to share his stories with me to give us some more glimpses into the history of this production.

This interview will be presented in two parts. In the first part, Nick told me something about the readings themselves and some interesting facts about the early casting.

NR: Can you tell me a little bit about your background, like where you grew up?

NC: I grew up mainly in California - in Ventura, between Malibu and Santa Barbara. I was there from fourth grade to high school. Then I went to Syracuse University, and from Syracuse to New York.

NR: Wow - from California to Syracuse. Your first winters must have been interesting.

NC: That first winter, I was out there with my cotton pants and my sneakers. I had been in the snow before, but only for about an hour. Nothing compared to this.

NR: I can just imagine. So, when did you become interested in theater?

NC: Ever since I was little. I majored in theater at Syracuse. I came here and started working pretty much right away.

NR: Now, you told me you started acting first.

NC: I was an actor pretty much through last year. Last year I was a director full time, and I've been a director full time for a year and a half now.

NR: What type of acting did you do?

NC: I did She Loves Me on Broadway. I was the original Bob Cratchit in A Christmas Carol, the one that Alan Menken wrote. I did the first three years of that. I did a Carnegie Hall concert of Anyone Can Whistle. Off Broadway, I did The Rothschilds, and a lot of regional theater.

NR: What made you decide to go into directing?

NC: I directed a little in college. The hardest thing for me to learn as an actor was to separate my "directing mind" from my "acting mind." Once I learned as an actor to separate those two things, then my acting got much better, and now I'm able to go back and forth. They're very different ways of thinking.

NR: Before you did that, were you thinking, "I don't like what this director's doing. I'd rather do it this way?"

NC: No, but often in shows I would make suggestions. It depended on the director and what type of working atmosphere he created. I learned a lot from a lot of the people I worked with. While I was doing She Loves Me, I started to do a lot of directing projects on the side because I was in town. I had the time around my Broadway schedule to rehearse a small one-act in various little corners of the city. I did a few readings for a few people. Scott Ellis, who directed She Loves Me, is the director on staff for the Nederlander Organization. They were doing a reading of The Scarlet Pimpernel and Kathleen Raitt asked Scott if he knew of anyone who could direct this reading for her. Scott wasn't available (I think he was working on Steel Pier at the time), and he gave her a list of a few people. I met with Kathleen. I got this phone call out of the blue saying, "This is Kathleen Raitt from the Nederlander office. Could you please call me." That was quite a surprise. We got along really well and they asked me to do this reading. That's how it all started.

NR: Why don't you explain to me what readings and workshops are? Can you give me a layman's description?

NC: OK. The initial reading was just for the authors and the initial producers to hear the material with actors. No one was invited. It was Pierre and Mary Cossette, Kathy Raitt, Nan (Knighton), Frank (Wildhorn), and maybe a couple of other people from the Nederlander office. I think we had a cast of seventeen people. It was in a very small studio underneath the John Houseman Theater. It was basically for the authors and the producers already on board to hear where the material was.

NR: Do you just invite actors? They didn't audition for this, did they?

NC: No one auditioned. Everyone was people we know. Oddly enough, Marguerite was Carolee Carmello. Francis Ruivivar was Chauvelin, and Greg Zerkle was Percy. If you read the liner notes from the CD, Nan thanked them and me. In the liner notes, she talks about the whole process of how the show evolved and started. We put up a simple stage. It's a reading, but there was some rehearsal involved. We rehearsed for about a week before that and then we presented the material. It was incredibly moving. Nan and I sat in the back and were brought very much to tears at the end. Carolee was terrific. The three of them, the triumvirate of the three of them worked really well together, and there was a lot of stuff going on, even in that initial phase. At that point, Jekyll & Hyde was a known commodity. It hadn't opened yet but it was touring and people knew who Frank was, so they really put themselves behind this a lot. The actors spent a lot of time and worked really hard. It was a chance for the authors to see the material, up on its feet with actors, and find out what works and doesn't work. Often things that work on paper, don't sometimes work when you put them up, and vice versa. Things that work great, read horribly on paper. So, it's about finding those things out.

NR: Was there music involved?

NC: Yeah. They all learned all the music.

NR: Was it originally songs from the concept CD?

NC: No, some new songs. The actors learned all the songs. Ron Melrose played and did the initial arrangements. I think he pulled an all-nighter the night before getting the arrangements done to hand to them for them to learn. I think he was doing something else and he just flew in. We sat around the table, did a reading, and I did some simple staging so we could follow the story visually, but not terribly complicated, with music stands. It was very clear that there was a very powerful and exciting show there.

NR: Did you do this for just one night?

NC: Just one afternoon. I think this was about a year and a half before they opened. That went so well that they said, "Let's invite all the producers in town, and the theater owners." So, we did that. We got the same group of people for the most part together. It was a month or two later, and we did the same thing again.

NR: OK, so you're still in the concept of "reading" and not "workshop." I don't really know the difference between the two.

NC: Well, in a workshop you usually stage things in a fuller way. In a reading, the material really carries the show. There's no complicated staging, there's no dance numbers. The staging consists of "people stand, they sit. You walk to this stand. You go back and sit down." The actors rise to the occasion and almost do what they would do if they were auditioning for a role - they really bring their heart and soul to it, but they're holding the scripts and turning pages. It's not memorized, although they are often very familiar with it, so they can look away and relate to each other. But, if they need to, they look at the music. It was a lot of material to learn in a very short rehearsal time.

We put that up again and got a wonderful response. I think the room sat 75 people and it was packed. It was interesting - in addition to just putting up the material, it gave Nan an opportunity to work on a few things. And, the actors put their input. There's stuff that evolved during that process that are still part of the show.

NR: What is in the show now that came from way back when? Are there concepts that are in the show now that you put there? (Note: This interview took place near the end of the run of the second version of The Scarlet Pimpernel. All questions about the current show refer to that version.)

NC: I don't know if I put concepts in. There were some suggestions I made. I don't really remember. Nan remembers better than me. I know there's something that she always talks about in the gazebo scene (which is now the bridge scene) that she says I had something to do with. Some of the songs were not finished at the time, so we would just say, "They sing a wedding song" and then we would go to the next thing. I think there were three or four songs that were not written yet. There were some songs that went into one of the readings that might have been removed. So, it was a chance to see the whole story. The basic things you're looking for are: Are you telling the story? Is the audience involved in the story? Is the audience involved in the characters? You're answering some of the basic elements by doing these things, and we got some wonderful performances. It was a really exciting, minimal event. Nan can tell you exact things. I can't tell you, "That's mine" or "That was my idea" because I really don't remember. We worked great together. Nan and myself and Frank and Ron. Everyone worked really well as a team.

NR: Was this one of your first directing jobs?

NC: It was one of the first directing jobs I had on such a big, visual...I had done a reading of another piece and I had done little Off Broadway things in workshops. I had a show of my own that I was in development with the Hal Prince Musical Theater Program that has since been done at Denver Theater Center and it might come into New York.

NR: What show is that?

NC: It's called Eliot Ness...in Cleveland. So, I was doing my own stuff at the same time and developing things.

NR: Were you a little nervous working with a newcomer, which is what Nan was at the time? I know Frank had a hard time just getting permission to use Nan.

NC: Actually, all that was so in place. I was just amazed that someone asked me to do this and I kind of had nothing to lose, so I just had a good time. I really had fun. We just went into this room. In the first one, no one was invited. It was just in-house for the people already involved with the show to look at it. So, there was no stress and we had a great time. It was fun. The second time it was a little more stressful because every producer in town was there. If you can get a room full of producers and have them laugh and cry, something is really working. So, it was a lot of fun. The cast had a great time. We had a great time. Nan and I LOVED working with each other. Frank was terrific at listening to ideas. Everyone was on the same wave length and it all came together.

A big question for me whenever I direct something is "What is the show about? What's the reason for doing this?" In addition to it being fun and entertaining, to me the story of The Scarlet Pimpernel has always been the story of one person to make a difference. I think this whole show hinged on that basic idea. It was the last thing I would say to the cast before the reading. On top of all the fun and all this kind of stuff, this is really about the ability of one person to make a difference in the world. I think that's really important to be out there, especially in these times when I think we're on a cusp where things can change. We've gone through so many time periods of being so self-involved and self-absorbed that I think we're entering a possibility now of a decade where maybe your life is valued more on the things you do for others and the changes you make in the world, as opposed to the earthly possessions you amass in a lifetime. Everyone's amassed so much stuff at this point, and they're not happy. You have these teenagers who are given everything and they're still unhappy.

NR: Well, Percy has everything and he's not happy.

NC: Yeah, so I still believe that it's an important concept that this show hangs on and it's been through every production. To me, that's the core of the show, that's what the show's about and that's the reason to do the show - to put that idea out there. And have a good time, and entertain, but the audience needs to walk out of the theater with just a little more than that. I think that idea nails that.

NR: Where did you go from those readings?

NC: Some things came into place from those readings. Then came the task of raising a substantial amount of money. Instead of turning to the normal producing entities, I believe the next thing that happened was we did a presentation at a different theater space, (around a 99-seat theater space) at the Directors' Company. It was one of the first things in their new theater space. That was for corporate people. Hallmark was there and Bill Haber was there. Bill Haber might have been on as producer at that point. We did a presentation to raise money from sources that were not your normal theater sources - not the Shuberts, not the Nederlanders, not the normal producing theater entities. The version of that show had to be an hour and fifteen long.

NR: How long had your previous readings been?

NC: We did the whole show before. We added a narrator. There was a narrator in the reading before who would narrate stage directions, but now the narrator became more of a tool to get us from one thing to the next, sort of a storyteller. That character would fill in some of the blanks. We would sing part of one song, he would say a little something, and then boom, we'd be at the next thing. Nan did a remarkable job condensing the show down to an hour fifteen format. I still have it. It's wonderful. It reads like a great swashbuckling adventure story you'd tell your kids at night because it was so action-packed and fun, but so condensed. They were the shortest versions of the songs that they could possibly be, because people want to know the story and they want to hear the songs. She found ways of just doing a little bit of the dialogue before the song, and then we'd do the song. So, we had that version of it. I'm not sure if we did one or two of those. I think we did two. I can't remember.

At this point, there was still no director on board. I never expected anyone to ask me to direct the show. For me it was a great adventure. It was a great opportunity for people to see my work and for me to work with established people, or people who were about to be very established. It was a great introduction for people to start thinking of me in a different way other than just as an actor, but as an actor who also directs. But, never from the beginning did I even think or dream that anyone would offer the job to me.

NR: So, when Peter Hunt got the job, that didn't surprise you or hurt your feelings, did it?

NC: No, not at all. These shows are extremely expensive and they don't say, "Hi, you've never really directed anything big, but we're going to put you in charge of a ten million dollar production."

NR: Well, they already had a book writer/lyricist who had never done this before, and they ended up with a leading man who had never done this before. I guess they figured that was enough gambling.

NC: Yeah. It's very different with a director because that's the person who's in charge of everything. There's a lot of technical stuff to know. There's a lot of things I've learned in the time since then so I never expected anyone to ask me to do that. I was just enjoying it for the time being.

The last thing that happened was something that was called the Group Sales presentation and that happened in the Broadhurst Theater where Once Upon a Mattress was playing. We were on their set. They kind of cleared off the stage and we put up the chairs and the music stands and Nan had to cut it down even more because the whole thing had to be an hour long - definitely. Then they invited all the people who book group sales tickets. I think we did two or three that day.

NR: Was it the same cast still at this point?

NC: Same cast. The theater was filled with these group sales people and friends, and industry people. Everyone wants to see the new show. It went great. The audience leapt to their feet. They cheered. Carolee stopped the show several times. Greg was wonderfully funny and Francis was terrific. The whole cast - everyone was there. Jekyll at this point was in town. A lot of people from Jekyll helped out and played lots of parts. It went terrific. Peter Hunt was the director at that point.

NR: Was there anyone in that who was in the original cast?

NC: The only person who's been there the whole time is Elizabeth (Ward). It's funny because I was in a revue with Elizabeth. We knew each other as friends and we did this show together, so when this reading came up, I called Elizabeth to play Marie. I said, "This role is so you. Will you come and do this reading?" She said, "Sure, I'd love to. Frank Wildhorn? Absolutely." So, Liz came and did the reading. Nan loved her and I think Liz is the only person who has been in every version of the show. She's coming back to do SP3, and her husband, Ken Land, will be playing Dewhurst in the new version. I'm so happy that Carolee is doing it again. I don't know if it's official yet or that deal has been struck, but Carolee was wonderful in the part. She stopped the show at every reading. She's an amazing Marguerite. She's a wonderful actress. She brings so much passion and heart and depth and caring to the part. Actually, it was between her and Christine Andreas. The two of them were down to the wire. You know, people make decisions for different things. I don't know why one was chosen over the other, but I know it was a really, really hard decision for all of them to make between the two of them.

NR: So, it looks like it worked out for her after all.

NC: Yeah. She ended up doing Parade and she was nominated for a Tony for that. She's doing Bells Are Ringing in L.A. right now, and then she comes in hopefully to do The Pimpernel. Audiences will love her. With just music stands she would stop the show.

Questions suggested by:

Renee Girard, Lois Colpo, Jody Uyanik, Thom Rosati, Jennifer Ahlborn, Leona Hoegsberg, Kathy Thurlow, Peter Williams, Susan Cassidy, Nesha Sellers, Shari Perkins, Josie Smith, Amy Lovett, Marc Roselli