NR: Were you involved with any of the casting for the Broadway version?

NC: No, I had nothing to do with that. Civil War is different. I worked on Civil War.

NR: Let's talk about that.

NC: I did all the readings of Civil War, and then I was part of the directing team in Houston. In that show, for the most part, everyone on stage, with a few exceptions, came from Houston, and I cast that production, although Jerry Zaks was there at the casting.

NR: Did he make major changes?

NC: Casting wise? No.

NR: How about the staging?

NC: Oh, absolutely. The whole concept of the show is completely different. When we did it in Houston they weren't wearing period clothes. They were in contemporary clothes that reflected the period. There were no battle scenes. It was more of a concert event. They often sat on stage, listening to each other's stories. It was an extremely theatrical, emotional concert. We weren't trying to recreate the Civil War - we were trying to, through song and words, honor the people who died in the Civil War.

NR: Do you think a concert would make it on Broadway at Broadway prices?

NC: I just think they're two totally different ideas for the show. I'm not saying one is better or worse then the other. They're just two totally different things. This is a much more "Broadway" thing. If you look at Rent, there's microphones standing on stage in Rent pretty much for the whole show. They come forward and sing. Rent in its own way is a variation on a theatrical concert. They don't bring in different sets. There have been cases of things. Chicago is basically a concert version. The orchestra's on stage. It works under a concert format, only highly theatricalized. It's not just a concert. It's just two totally different things. I don't know if one would have worked better or not. It's just two totally different ideas of what the show is. I think Jerry did a great job and the cast is tremendous. I'm so proud of them. The voices are amazing. For the most part, that's the company that was in the show when we did it in Houston. There were a few changes here or there, but not any major changes.

NR: Now, you've worked with Frank twice now. What is his take on all of this? It seems like he can't win with some people. The bashing is just incredible. It's almost as if they don't even bother to listen. They just assume they'll hate it in some cases.

NC: I think Frank writes what he believes in, and he has to write what he believes in. For Frank to try to write a show like Stephen Sondheim in order to please the critics is pointless.

NR: I agree. How does he feel about all of this? Does it bother him or does he let it roll off him?

NC: I think he lets it roll off him. Frank has an extremely loyal following. A whole new generation of theater audiences come to see his shows. I think the dismissiveness of the critics of his work has got to hurt. I'm sure he feels that, but I'm sure it's not going to deter him from doing what he believes in, nor should he let it. I have a lot of respect for Frank. Frank cares a lot and he's trying different things and pushing things. He can only do what he believes in. You have to give someone at least the respect that they're putting themselves on the line for something they believe in. That's just like Pimpernel - putting yourself on the line for something you believe in. So, there's a part of Frank that's very much like Percy - going against the odds, doing what he believes is right and what his heart and soul believe in. There's a part of Frank that's very much Percy, although I don't think Frank would want everyone to know that it bothers him. I don't think he would let anyone know that. But you know, your works are like children. I don't think he takes it personally, but to have people say negative things about your children...To put up a new show is a hard birthing process. You create this thing that you really love, and then to have everyone say that your baby's ugly, is really hard. Sound of Music didn't get great reviews when it opened, yet Sound of Music is considered a classic of American theater.

NR: A lot of shows didn't get great reviews. I just look at the audience response and the fact that everyone I've ever brought to Pimpernel absolutely loved it. It's a wonderful show.

NC: It is a wonderful show. Some of the people that have gone through the show in the cast are some of the nicest people. I've worked with them in different things on various readings and I see them at openings and parties, and they are just lovely, lovely people. Nan is so talented. She's got such a great fighting spirit and a sense of justice. I don't know if it comes from being a tiny person. She's got this huge heart and passion and drive and energy. She's remarkable. They're all tilting at the windmills, and I think that's great.

NR: So, what's ahead for you?

NC: Lots of things. I just did a reading of a musical version of Summer of `42. We're waiting to hear what's going to happen with that. Things might happen with Eliot Ness...in Cleveland. I have a new show that I'm co-writing with a new composer. So, lots of interesting things are going on. What I really want to do is make interesting theater that has something to say, and make enough money to have an apartment. (laughing) Those are my goals - a place to live and doing work that I really love doing.

Nan and I talk often about working together again because we just love each other so much and love working together. It's such a positive thing. I would love to work with Frank again on something else. I've worked with him twice now and they've both been incredible learning experiences for me. I think things happen as they're meant to happen. It's interesting, when we were in previews with Civil War, we'd go upstairs after the show. Frank would always say, "OK, what have we learned tonight?" It was a great attitude. It wasn't, "This has got to change" or "This isn't working," but "What did we learn tonight?" We would go around the room and say whatever. When things don't turn out the way you hope they will, I say, "What did I learn from that?" If I'm going to walk away from that experience... I find that you're meant to go through certain things to learn certain things. That's how you grow as a person and I can't thank Frank and Nan enough for giving me these opportunities to learn and to grow, and for trusting me with their material at these early stages when things are so fragile. Because, if things don't go right then, people won't give you a second look. This city's tough. The fact that they trusted me with the Pimpernel at its earliest stage, and the same thing with Civil War, is a huge honor. I have no regrets about turning them over to other people. I believe I was meant to take them to a certain point and that the other person was meant to take them from here to there. That's OK. You take the hand and you go on the journey as far as you're meant to, and then maybe it's time to then give the child's hand to someone else who can then take it through whatever perils and stuff on that next leg of the journey that they know how to protect the child during.

NR: That's great. Thank you so much.

NC: You're welcome.

I'm very grateful to Nick for sharing these stories with me. It was fascinating to learn about events concerning The Scarlet Pimpernel that occurred before most of us were aware of the production. The evolution of this show has been so incredible, and it appears that SP3 is coming full circle by heading more towards the intimate version that was directed by Nick three years ago. Based on his comments, I look forward to yet another chapter in the saga of The Scarlet Pimpernel.

Questions suggested by:

Renee Girard, Lois Colpo, Jody Uyanik, Thom Rosati, Jennifer Ahlborn, Leona Hoegsberg, Kathy Thurlow, Peter Williams, Susan Cassidy, Nesha Sellers, Shari Perkins, Josie Smith, Amy Lovett, Marc Roselli

Interview conducted and photographs by Nancy Rosati.